so the resolution of the debt ceiling crisis in particular, i think was a big moment for the market. we are targeting 2.25% on the ten-year over the next couple of months. as you mentioned, economic momentum is getting a little better. really, the underlying trend of things is not so bad for the economy. and if you do get, as your previous guest noted, another move up of 3%, 4%, 5% in equities, then that could easily be the impetus to get treasury yields even higher than they are today. >> the big question, and we should talk about it, is the losses that people could suffer moving forward. but for the moment, if we take a historical perspective, we're still at very low interest rates, aren't we. 4%, 5% would be a normal rate. i assume this is not necessarily at the moment at this level a problem in slowing the economy. >> no, we're not panicked. in fact, we think that treasury yields will probably find a plateau somewhere around that 2.25% and end the year somewhere about where they are today. treasury yields, at least at the moment, are heavily influenced by supply and demand factor